Getting your head right before getting sober

Welcome to Virgins Don't Take Pregnancy Tests, where real conversations meet hard truths with Angie and Dave. Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of Virgins Don't Take Pregnancy Tests, the podcast with Angie and Dave. Um, so, for today's topic, I thought, just kind of finishing up what we were talking about last week with my husband, Mike, um, who passed away, um, the topic I wanted to really lean into today is around mental health, sobriety. And a lot of alcoholics, as well as drug users, um, use those substances to self-medicate some other undiagnosed mental health condition. And so, you know, mental health is really, I would say, the most critical area to figure out and understand and get, you know, treatment for ahead of trying to get sober. Otherwise, you're really just, like, fighting a no-win situation. Um, you need to talk to a psychiatrist, you need to understand what's going on mentally, and then likely get some sort of medication if you are dealing with a mental health issue. Um, what are some good stats as far as, like, how it impacts the addiction society? Um, so, I'll read some stats in a second, but I just wanted to touch on, um, it was weird. I thought it was weird anyway when I first went to my, the first IOP I went to, the only IOP I went to. We literally spent nights learning about the brain. And that's literally, that's what they started with. Like, you need to know why, right? Serotonin, dopamine, all that stuff. Um, and so, I, we were watching movies, videos, and all this stuff about the brain. Um, I was sitting there thinking, what, that, why are, why aren't we watching that? Like, it's not, you know, science class or whatever. Um, so, that just told me, because that was one of the first things that did that's really important. It means to understand what's going on here. So, um, in the homework I did, uh, roughly 50% of people with substance abuse disorder, i.e. addiction, uh, will experience mental illness at some point in their lives, and vice versa. So, data, data from major health studies show that these co-occurring conditions, also called dual diagnoses, uh, happen together very frequently. Uh, about half of individuals with severe mental illness also, um, struggle with substance abuse. And, this is a big one right here, uh, 37% of people with alcohol use disorders, and 53% of people with drug use disorders, have at least one mental illness. Um, I know, I've been diagnosed with, uh, depression and anxiety, and I am on two medications. It was Lexapro, worked for a while, and then, um, I don't know if my body just got so used to it. I, I could tell, um, that it was starting to wear off. It was, I could tell myself I had a shorter fuse, um, I was just like, I would find myself, like, mad for no reason, and it was just, not that anyone else could notice, but I could tell. Yeah. And that kind of worried me. Yeah. So, when I last went to my doctor, and I had mentioned that, and they had thought it was a vitamin D deficiency, so then they got my vitamin D up, and it wasn't that. Um, so they put me on, um, well, each goes along with the Lexapro, and, um, I noticed it took about a week. It's perfect. Brought me right back, loved me right back off. I was a little skeptical, um, but I don't, I've never been one to say no to medication. Like, I, it's there for a reason, right? If it helps, it helps. It's, it's an important topic in the, like, sobriety world, because I do think it's a topic where there's some disagreement. Um, some people, like myself and you, understand the nature of mental health, and the need to get, you know, medicated, and get all of that taken care of before you try to get sober. There is a group out there of people that do think taking psychiatric medicine is a failure of your sobriety, which I completely disagree with. Um, kind of like what you just said, if they have medicine, it's for a reason. Um, it helps you get better. It helps you get into a mental state where you can really then get sober. Yeah, and if these medications didn't work, I wouldn't take them, but they do. So, I'm going to keep taking them because it literally makes me a better person. And, uh, easier to be around. And I don't need my temper and things like that. I don't get frustrated very easily anymore. So, it definitely. It does. And for me, it's been a process because since I have a condition, like I have bipolar, I did not know that even up until I was 40. I was just drinking heavily, which I was drinking to medicate all the anxiety, depression, ups and downs, whatever, you know, was going on, which is a lot of stuff. Um, but I didn't even know that it was a problem until my 40s. And, and that was the first time I kind of like, it came to my attention that it needed to be addressed. And that was new to me. I was not thinking that I had something else wrong with me. Um, and so only because I was able to get treated for my bipolar and I'm on actually five daily medications. Um, one of those is a sleeping medication. Um, I still take, and I think a lot of that has to do with some PTSD from Tampa. Um, but I still take a sleeping medicine, not AMB or anything, nothing addictive. Um, you know, I think the thing about psych psychiatric medicine is there's certain kinds that are okay for alcoholics and certain kinds that aren't. And the reason I bring that up is there's stuff like benzos, it's like Xanax and Valium. And those are basically alcoholics. I believe alcoholics, addicts should not be open. So diazepine, and that's where you'll see a lot of the first place people go. I've got depression, anxiety. I need Xanax or Valium. That's the first thing the doctor gives them. But again, that's just like a little bit of a bandaid. It's not going to really deal with the root cause. And so until you can go to a psychiatrist, tell them what your issues are, and then really start to get treatment. And I don't know if this was the same for you, but it was not an immediate fix for me. Meaning it took, I want to say, maybe even a couple of years to get to the right dosage and medication to where I was completely stable. And now I'm completely stable. I mean, I very rarely have any impact from my bipolar. It just isn't a part of my day anymore. But I was very unsuccessful as far as like stopping drinking and getting sober until I figured out that piece of it. And I think that's common for so many of us. For me, I was just, I just found myself really, really depressed. Like out of nowhere, for no reason. I think we talked about this in maybe the first episode. And I knew it, but I didn't know enough about it. I didn't really know what it was. And then I got into the whole thing. Well, I mean, later when I started thinking about it, you know, was I drinking because of my depression and anxiety, which I got diagnosed with when I wasn't drinking? Or was I depressed and anxious because I was drinking so much? You seem to know, like, your situation, what came first and how that worked. I don't. And I honestly don't care to know. I just know my point is that I feel better now. Yeah. No matter what it is. I feel better if it feels great or not or whatever. It's probably a little of both somewhere, right? Yeah. And I think also the medication I took to it quickly. And I often think that, at least for me, I'm only speaking for myself. If I think that I'm on something that is going to help me, it tends to help me. Or like the placebo effect. Like the placebo effect, right? Like if I feel like I'm taking action, I'm being proactive in trying to fix something with myself and I'm taking something for it, I tend to think that it's working. But at the end of the day, all I really know is I'm a happier person and I'm easier to hear because it stinks to be depressed. It's terrible. And the main part about it is you know you're depressed. The problem is you're depressed and then you drink and alcohol is a depressant. Right. And then when you drink, your brain starts going. You start thinking about all this shit why you're depressed. It's probably just, you know, it gets so big in your head. It's not a good state of mind to be in. And then you throw in the anxiety. I don't know. I'd be interested to see where I would fall. I don't know if there's like a bipolar spectrum or, you know, I know, and maybe I'll talk about it later. I know there's a, there's the MHA Mental Health America screening where you can go online and it's free. You can take all these online questionnaires for. Did you do that? No. No. But I probably should. I just found it like in my research. But you can take the please for like depression, PTSD, anxiety, all that stuff. I just. I would love to know where I fall, if at all, in the bipolar range. So you're probably not bipolar. Man, that's like, I'm not proud of it. I actually used to not tell people about being bipolar because immediately people have a negative connotation with that. They think I'm like completely fucking crazy and they don't understand it. It doesn't make you feel any better. I always thought you were like. Thanks. But they don't understand it. And so like all these topics, like when you're trying to quit drinking, like I didn't really even understand it myself. So how could other people understand it? And it's like one of those things that builds a bigger barrier, if you will, between people understanding alcohol and addiction. They just, they merge everything together. And it's definitely separate and a big piece of a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts. Yeah, like I'm sure, like a lot of people, when they hear our stories or at least my story, like when I say like traffic used to drive me nuts, right? People don't understand, like for a typical person, that's just traffic, that's not true. So you don't understand the mental, what's going on inside your head, like why that affects me differently than it might affect a typical person. And so there's things like that, that people, things that they don't think are a big deal or they can't perceive things being a big deal. To us, they are. And we don't even know why. We can't expect them to know why, right? I don't know why I was drinking so much. I don't know what was going on in my head. I don't expect you to, right? But I think the most important part is the self-realization, the self-actualization that there is something wrong. Something's not right. And you have to do something to fix it. Whatever it is, get on medication. But you certainly got to talk to somebody and you have to figure it out. I am 100% sure, maybe 99, that Mike, my husband, was dealing with mental health issues. For many, many years, if not decades. And one of the key drivers in him dying of drug overdose and self-medicating still was he never, ever was able to find a doctor, figure it out for him, and get stable. And it was just never addressed. And that is a disastrous situation for a drug addict or alcoholic who's drinking or using drugs like that to medicate. It's like a never-ending. You're just self-medicating more and more. It gets worse and then you're medicating more. And I think the other big thing is to admit it to yourself that you have a problem where there is something going on and that you need help. And that's probably the bigger part. And the one thing when you go and talk to somebody, whether it be a regular therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist, whatever, you have to be honest. And when you're honest, it humbles you. You have to be ready to be humble and take your medicine, for lack of a better term, or else you won't get the problem. Honesty is the whole thing. I mean, that's the backbone of getting help, I think. No, I mean, 100%. And I think that there's no sense going through it if you're not going to be honest with your doctors. It's like cheating on a golf score. You're not helping your game. Yeah. And like, but by that point, I really did want to know if something was wrong with me. Like, I didn't know what was wrong. You know, I just knew I had really impulsive behavior and, you know, some things that were going on and the drinking, of course. But like, I literally had no idea. And so I think it's really important if you're struggling with alcohol right now or anything else from an addiction standpoint, is making sure that you have all of your bases covered. And if there's any sort of mental health issue going on, whether it's just depression, anxiety, or whether it's something more severe, getting that dealt with day one. And we were lucky enough that we both went lucky to rehab. Yeah, this is great. No, but I mean, they, that was like the first thing that, I mean, seeing a doctor and getting, like, that was like the first thing that was done. And so I think we were lucky that that kind of happened in our story because a lot of people are just self-medicating and don't know why. That's very true. And I think the other thing that's important is, um, if you choose to go, uh, see a therapist or a doctor or a psychiatrist or a psychologist, early on in that process, find one that you'd like, find one that you can stick with. Because the last thing you want to do, because I've had to do it, is tell your story six different times to people. Um, because you'll tell it six different ways. You'll never have the same story. So I had the same psychiatrist for over 10 years and just retired. That did. And immediately I was like, oh shit, start over with someone else. Now think that I went to someone and it's. They kind of know you. I mean. Here comes crazy. Yeah. They know enough where I can just kind of go. But I mean, I, starting that process over was really like scary to me. Because then you've got to do it all over again. It's not fun. And I don't know how to, to keep saying this or to reiterate this, but like, it was very much a test and learn as far as what worked for me and my mental health. It wasn't just like, oh yeah, here, one, two, three, great. That's when I'm going to start and that's what worked. It did not happen that way. It was an evolution over probably two years to get to where I am today. And so, yeah, starting over is a scary thing. So find someone that you trust. And I think just in terms of like honesty, the whole humbling and getting honest with yourself. I mean, that is sobriety. You're, you're just humbled in terms of like, you're just admitting to someone. I can't do it and I need help. Yeah. You're admitting to someone that not that you're a failure, but you did not succeed as much as you should have. And that you need help to do that. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think, and we've talked about, maybe talking about at some point the differences between men and women through this whole process. Yeah. But definitely as a, as a, as a, as a male, you know, you're always taught, you don't cry, you don't show emotions, you don't, you don't let things get to you. You handle stuff yourself. So for me, it was that plus being a Marine and, you know. A macho thing. It is. It's a hundred percent true. And it's hard to, it's very hard to humble yourself and be honest, but it is supremely the most important thing in the process. So I want to talk about, um, two things about when I was in treatment, as far as, um, you know, clearing your head or getting your head right. I did. My friends and family are going to see me. I did yoga every day. We did too. And I never, we didn't have to, but I did it like once and twice. I enjoyed it very much. I enjoyed it so much. I bought a yoga mat when I came home after the 30s. Did you ever do it again? Not once. So, no, no, no. I haven't done traditional, like, yoga. There's no way you're doing yoga in your basement. No, no. Do you know what I do, though? And I just did it last weekend. And I told Kathy about it. And she said, I don't think she laughed. I'll do what's called, um, yoga nidra, which is, it's to put yourself to sleep. Oh. So you get really good sleep. Because I, I tend to wake up at, like, two or three in the morning. And I, that's why I send crazy shit, right? Like, two or three in the morning. And I'm drugged until 8 a.m. Yeah. And, yeah. You don't even know what you're reading, though. And then, so, but I'll wake up. And if I can't fall back to sleep, I'll either go downstairs and work. Or I will, I'll put the phone right by my ear. I'll pull up a yoga nidra on YouTube. And it takes 10 minutes. And I'm out like a light. And I'll sleep straight through for two hours. So, that's one thing I took out of treatment was just, like, mind and body. Clearing your head, too. Yeah, just clearing it out and, you know, reset it. So, also, when I was in treatment, which has been in the news a lot lately with celebrities, Aiden Van Teer. So, when I was in treatment, that's when Matthew Perry died. And so, we obviously talked about that a lot when we were in treatment, when I was in treatment in our sessions and stuff. And the only thing, it was a really great coincidence because I was just in the middle of talking with, I had two main therapists. And I was, me and this one kept getting into it about, I was steadfast in that money can buy happiness. And she was like, no, it can't. And we were just in the middle of all of our sessions. That's what it kind of came down to. And then Matthew Perry docked off. And I was like, wow. Like, how can you, you have millions of dollars, you're living in the Hollywood Hills in a sick pool, and you're ODing on drugs. Like, ketamine. Ketamine. It's a drug, right? I know. I'm just saying it's a tough drug. No, I'm just saying it's a hard, hard drug. Right. So, I mean, if that can happen to him, then maybe money can't buy happiness. I still think it can help. But imagine what was going through his head. This guy who had everything, end up like that. And now you start to hear it more and more with Aiden Van Geer and Pits off the wagon again after seven years. And Shia LaBeouf is running around drinking every day. The thing I want to call out about those stories is, when I hear them as a recovering alcoholic, I know exactly what happened. Like, there's no question in my head. Aiden Panettiere. I will talk about Brad Pitt. Matthew Perry. Shia LaBeouf. All of them. You know, I called it right away. Right away, someone at age 36 who's had a drug addiction problem dies. I don't need them to tell me there was Narcan there. I don't need them to tell me she was with her boyfriend who was seedy and they get drugs. I know automatically it resonates with me because I know exactly what happened. Same thing with Brad Pitt. Why the Brad Pitt thing is important to understand is, any alcoholic that chooses to go back to drinking, and that's just what you're doing. You're basically just like, I'm going to go back to being an active alcoholic and I'm okay with that. There is no time ever for someone suffering from alcohol and drug addiction where you are fixed and you can go back to drinking or to drugging. The phrase that I like a lot, and I think we've talked about it, is once you become a pickle, you can't go back to being a cucumber. Once a cucumber becomes a pickle, you can't go back to being a cucumber. It sounds stupid, but to me, something like Brad Pitt going back to drinking is much bigger than him just going back to drinking. To me, that's another alcoholic, and sorry Brad, who is sick and decided to go back to drinking. You and I are only this far away from that happening to us on a daily basis, right? And so that kind of stuff scares me, but at the same time, I can look at it and I just immediately understand what's going on with these people. Yeah, and it's like, you know, if you woke up tomorrow and, you know, the first story on TMZ was, you know, Brad Pitt wrapped his car around the television, well, you wouldn't be shocked, right? I'm not going to be shocked when something happens. Right. And the only thing about hate and panic air, I would say, was, you know, getting back to our question a little bit earlier with the self-regulation, self-actionation. She knew enough and knew better to at least give full custody to her daughter's father. She knew that she could not function or provide for her the way that she should be able to do it and that he could. So that's, I mean, that's the epitome of self-awareness. And her daughter's living in a different country, like with the husband. Yeah, the guy named Vladimir Kutcher. I'm just saying, she really, that is one thing that she did. Yeah, we all know. I'm so impressed that she had the wherewithal to do that because I think when kids are involved, I mean, for me, that was my main motivation, as for most people. But to be a mother, and I certainly was in this position where I should have given up my kids if I wasn't going to quit drinking, is a really scary proposition. But that's the reality for parents that drink. Yeah, I didn't realize that. I think the audience is 11. No? Yeah, I think so. And I think she gave her when she was four? Yeah, I think so. So I think it's seven years. So she's been going through it. It's sad, but it's not surprising. Yeah. It's a shame. Yeah. Let's pivot away from the celebrities and them dying. Because you and I have made it, right, so far. Down our way, both doing really well. The only reason I am doing well is because I recognized that something was going wrong with me myself. So my, and I've talked about it in previous episodes, my oh shit moment was when I was seriously considering killing myself. And that was my wow. And because I was thinking about it for so long, it finally took me a while, but I got there to which I happened to do something. And that was seeking treatment, getting treatment, getting my head right, getting diagnosed, getting on medication, and starting the whole process. So what was your oh shit moment, like I have to pick this up? So because my story includes like laps, I've had, I've quit, I've started, I've quit, you know, and. How was the one that worked? What was that one that worked? Well, the last time where I really ended up going into treatment and really starting to figure it out. So I had moved back, I mentioned after my husband died, I moved back to one of the girls. I was still drinking, just, just like I was in Tampa. Although I had gone to rehab and then stopped, but I was drinking again. Long story short, I remember I, there was one Sunday and the girls, I actually think Kathy and my sisters might have taken them because I was drinking or something. I was home drinking alone in this like sunroom I had in my townhouse and I just remember. This is in the book too, right? Yeah, this is in the book. This gets back to probably, I think chapter three, where I had a friend call me today and I was drunk when I answered. But what she said to me was my moment. And she said, I thought you would be dead, but she was surprised I knew. And she didn't say it like mean. It was like very genuine and I felt it and I just sat there and I was like, what am I doing? And then I got off the phone with her and I remember very clearly thinking to myself, I've got two options. Here they are. And I didn't know which one I was going to pick. I'm going to keep drinking and die and someone else is going to raise my girls. Or I'm going to quit drinking and be the mom, the baby. We're all going to grow up healthy. Healthy and happy. And I literally remember thinking about both options. Like drinking and dying. Not that I was like necessarily suicidal. That didn't seem like a given, given everything. And she had the balls to tell you that. How many people were thinking that, but never said anything? I mean, honestly, sadly, by that point, I wasn't talking to a lot of people. I had lost my friends, but I had managed to get everyone away, right? Anyone that was going to interfere with my drinking wasn't really in the circle at that point. And good for her that she actually said that to me. And I don't think she was like planning it. Like, I think it was just one of those heart-to-heart things of that. Yeah, it was like real. It just came out like she was 100% serious. And when she said it, I thought about how right she was. And that was kind of my... That whole day, I didn't necessarily never drink again after that day. But something pivotal changed. I did decide I wasn't going to drink and die and give my girl. I did decide that. Right, so that set the wheels in motion. Like you knew where you wanted to go. Yes, I knew which way I was going. I wasn't really ready to go that way 100%. But it did... That's where it all formed in my head. I knew that that was like the last day I was going to get away with this shit. It was just time. I had a little bit of a nudge. Because I know Kathy had said... I don't pervading, but basically it was you need to fix your shit and you're not going to do it here. So at the time, I really didn't know what that meant. Because it was still a couple weeks before my shit really imploded. Yeah, and so I guess that would be... If I have an equivalent of your experience of someone saying something to you that made you go that way, that would have been fine. She was pretty adamant. There's something wrong with you. You need to fix it and you're not going to do it. And so when I told her, when I told her, I forget how I told her on that Thursday night that I was leaving Friday morning, she was shopping. And she almost, it almost looked like, I don't think she was going to say no, don't. Because I had been told for a long time... You mean learning that you're going away for 30 days? Yeah, like, oh shit, he's really doing it. Now I've got to take care of everything for 30 days. And I remember before I left, I paid bills. I filled the cars up with gas. I took care of stuff before I left so she wouldn't have to do too much. Like, that makes me a saint. So yeah, that was, it was still a couple weeks before I had made that call. And she was, I think, shocked that one, that I did it. And then two, that it was like, next day, like, this is happening. And I hope on some level she was thinking, wow, he's not fucking around. But he's going tomorrow. Yeah. You almost have to go tomorrow or you check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you say, well, let me give it a couple days. Don't give it a couple days. Yeah, and I have been told many times, beginning back when I started the IOP, like, you seriously are a prime candidate for, like, inpatient, like 30, 60, 90-day inpatient. You should do that. Like, can't, I have a daughter, I do, I have a wife, do. No one does. Yeah. And I'm like, ah, that can't happen. Like, you know, I've got to work, I've got to work, I'm like, almost like making excuses, but valid excuses, I think, too. Like, no one wants to leave their family for therapy. Yeah. But, yeah, it's still, doing that is so important and so smart. There's zero chance I'd be sitting here right now if I didn't, if I didn't go get my head right first and get diagnosed with the person that I had to get on that patient. And then now it's just a matter of, I'm so many days in, like, I started, I would be so upset with myself if I woke up tomorrow and maybe ever have any drink tonight. That'd be devastating. So now that's the thing. So then you always have to have something to strive for to keep you as my, that's my story. I mean, so I wish I could say I just had the one patient. And, you know, in my story, I went to three times in patient. And so, like, they were all kind of, I don't want to say the same, but they were rehab, right? They're kind of, they're 12-step based. You know, you're doing the yoga and meditation, you're doing the meet with a doctor, you're doing the 12 steps, all that kind of stuff. But I think, like, the part that's hard for people to understand is, like, why is it so hard to go to meet? Like, is it just the fact that, like, everyone's going to know your shit, right? Like, they don't already know your shit. Because everyone pretty much knows a lot of what's going on. They're just, you don't know it because they're not talking to you about it. But people are talking about it. They are talking about it. And I think a lot of times, people, they don't want to be the asshole that calls you out. Even though, even though she didn't know it, your friend that called you was being the asshole that hadn't called you out. And I do, I think a lot of people are scared to be honest and get home and admit that they need help. It's hard to do. But there's, there's nothing more satisfying than never having to lie. I get so much out of that, just mentally, just knowing. I don't ever have to lie down. That's just, that's a great deal. It's all the things I wanted to fix my mental health. I found my mental health today and that's what it came down to. I wouldn't be worried if I didn't fix my mental situation. Yeah, absolutely. 100% for me. It's been a 15 year process as far as like getting help from my bipolar, getting sober. You know, it's, it's been a long journey, but all of it was tied to getting my, my head in the right place and fixed before I would ever have a chance at actually being successful of quitting alcohol. And I think some people don't understand that. Even if you're in that situation, you're setting yourself up for failure. Right? So a lot of people have no idea they have mental health issues. So it's like just understanding that and becoming a bit and understanding how it's such a big piece for many alcoholics and many drug addicts dealing with mental health issues. We're great examples of if you can get them fixed in parallel, you have a great chance of success, right? You can change and you can quit drinking and you can start being honest and all of that great stuff. Like I love waking up every day and I don't feel like shit. I am obsessed with it. I think I feel better than everyone else. I, I'm almost a little bit like not arrogant, but like I'm really hooked on feeling good and I don't know how I used to live drinking the amount I was drinking every night and then getting up the next day and doing my whole day, whether it was work or mom stuff or whatever. I don't know how the hell I did that. I don't know how I did it. I think a lot of, a lot of, um, a big piece of it as far as waking up and doing good, I think deep down stems a little bit from by not drinking the night before you kind of did a good thing. And like, it's proven like you do good things, you do kind things to people. If you're just a nice person, like if you literally do a good deed for someone and are kind to someone that produces dopamine and serotonin that literally like makes you feel better. It makes you happy. Um, so yeah, I think, uh, just knowing that, that, um, you're going to feel good the next day is, is motivation wrong for me because I, I never really, and this is another big red flag. If you don't, if you stop getting hangovers, like if your body's just so used to having shit in the system. I think most alcoholic heavy drinkers probably don't really get hangovers. Yeah, I never really gotten hangovers that I can remember when you start not getting hungover or it starts taking an insane amount of alcohol to eating. Build that up. Pure bugs and drugs. Yeah, you'll go. Um, that, that's another big one. Um, but let's, um, let's get into, so there are a lot. So we talked about it on the last episode, how when we were growing up, mental health wasn't a big thing. Yeah. Um, but now it is. And so you see all the time advertising, even like now, like commercials are just like, there's like a commercial literally with like a stream and some music that just plays for 30 seconds when you're watching TV. And that's like your time out. Yeah. They're helping you. Yeah. It's 30 seconds to relax. Um, but so there's so many things, like there's apps, um, you can get one of those. So Headspace is one that I used as well as Home. That's on my list. Calm is on my list. Calm, Headspace, Insight Timer, and Daily O. They'll give you like, there's so many different meditations. There was another one, but I didn't know how to pronounce it. I don't know. Hold on, hold on. H-O-L-O-N. I don't know. I don't know what to say. Um, but, and it's like guided meditation with sleep aids or mood logging, activity tracking. One is just for stress and sleep. And then there's just like all this wine stuff that's free. Seven cups. It's one of the largest ones. You can really like chat with experts, uh, 24 hours a day. Um, the ADAA, the Anxiety and Depression Association, they can, they gear it towards you with like your own charts and pie charts. Yeah. You can see trends and what's triggering you. What, what's making you feel a certain way. Um, there's, uh, goroger.org specifically for veterans. Okay. Who might be suffering from PTSD or whatever. Yeah. So if you're a veteran, don't do something. Goroger.org is great. Um, and then the other thing, and this is what helped me, um, and thankfully it was, uh, available to me is a lot of employers. Every employer should have a, uh, EAP, an employee, employee assistance program, um, with all this information. Uh, so ask your employer, um, if you're feeling any of this stuff, ask your employer, what, what is included in my EAP, um, through my insurance or through this program. They usually have behavioral health services. Right. Like the one I use, um, which is why, uh, I mean, I don't, I act like it's not a large amount of money. But it was only $2,000 for me to go to that third day. Oh yeah. That's really cheap. Yeah. I mean, that's all it was for me because I had such great insurance and a great EAP. Um, I, I did have a really strong, good insurance. So I know a lot of people might not have that, but it's a great place to start. Yeah. If you're an employer offering an employee assistance program, um, and see what it gets you. I think there's some that gets you whatever you need. Some may only be limited to five free sessions. It'll definitely get you some counseling. It gets you started. Yeah. Right. It'll definitely get you. It gets, it gets the conversation going. And, you know, you go back to the self-actualization. At least you're, you're admitting like, Hey, something not right. I need to treat you. So conversely, when we were growing up and even early on, I would imagine when we, at least me, when I was pounding drinks hard in my, in my twenties and early thirties, I don't know that even mental health was even that prevalent. That's 20 years ago. I'm 51. Yeah. I mean, 20 years ago, I don't think it was as prevalent as it is now. No. And that's why I say, like, I don't even remember it being a part of my experience. Like, I don't ever remember even thinking about it in my twenties and thirties. Yeah. Like maybe I have something. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the other thing. There's so much stuff out there now to get help and I'm not going to say there's no excuse to not get help because I don't know what everyone else is doing. But there's definitely, um, there's stuff out there for sure. And we'll post some of those on our, uh, next.